We chatted with Edgar Ramirez Manriquez, Chair of the North Park Planning Committee and an environmental planner who analyzes the impacts of public projects. Edgar grew up in Calexico in the Imperial Valley, where he saw firsthand how industry affects the air and water on both sides of the border. That experience shaped his career and is the reason he cares so much about how California reviews big projects.
He explains CEQA (the California Environmental Quality Act), in plain language. From there, we talk about Prop 45. Its supporters call it the “Building an Affordable California Act,” and it would require even the most complex environmental reviews to be finished within one year. 😬 Edgar shares how that deadline could lead to cut corners, how broadly the measure defines “essential projects”, and why it could lock in today’s rules so that future protections wouldn’t apply to projects that are already approved.
Follow Edgar on Instagram to learn more!
Takeaways
[00:10.5]
Hello and welcome to the Public Speak podcast where we're on a mission to make American local government make sense. What a challenge! We are skipping the jargon and having real conversations about how it all works and how it impacts your daily life. Probably more than you know.
[00:25.8]
I'm Rachel and I sit on the Neighborhood Planning Committee in North Park, San Diego. And of course, I'm here with my lovely co-host Felicia, city council member in East Hampton, Massachusetts. Yes, hi everyone. Felicia here, city council member. I also sit on a number of different committees, including a rent study stabilization committee, a rules and government relations committee, appointments committee, and more.
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So I'm deep in local government. Yes, you're so busy, Felicia. Thank you for your service here on this lovely little pod. I am so excited to introduce our lovely guest today, who's Ed Edgar Ramirez Manriquez.
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Who chairs the North Park Planning Committee, so he's also my fellow committee member and the person who keeps our meetings moving as much as possible. By day, he's an environmental planner analyzing the impacts of public projects. We are so excited to dig in.
[01:20.6]
Yeah, thank you for having me. It's I'm excited to talk regulation, public projects, the environment. Let's go. All the exciting stuff. Well, welcome to Public Speak. We're so happy to have you here. So. Let's just dive right on in. So Edgar, I would love if you could start us off by telling us a little bit of what we call your origin story and what drew you to this work.
[01:42.4]
Yeah, absolutely. My my origin story. Your superhero story. Yeah, yeah. When you got bit by a spider. Go ahead. Yeah, well, so I, you know, I I have nearly a decade of experience in environmental regulation, environmental compliance, and just like really.
[02:01.6]
Analyzing and understanding what are the impacts of delivering infrastructure, neighborhood services, and I, you know, when I when I think about my kind of how I got to where I am now, I think a lot of it has to do with where I grew up.
[02:19.1]
I, I, I grew up in the Imperial Valley, a small town called Calexico, a border town, and the Imperial Valley has. One of the highest it let's say we we have a lot going on for us not not not in the best ways but we have like the most polluted air we have the most polluted water living in a border town means that you see a lot of that the difference in environments between the U.S.
[02:47.0]
side and the Mexican side and you also see kind of like how industry the impacts of industry and how it impacts both regions so I in many ways I think my experience living in the imperial region kind of informed me of the the how human action impacts the environment and how then we react to it.
[03:15.5]
So I really think about that as like my origin story and kind of like my broader interest in in trying to understand the the environment and how we relate to it. That's super interesting. I would love for you to just clarify one quick minor point, because you both are in California, but I'm on the East Coast in Massachusetts.
[03:36.8]
So, whereabouts roughly for anyone who isn't in California is the Imperial Valley? Because I have never heard of that area before. Oh yeah, no worries. So the Imperial Valley is about two two hours southeast from here.
[03:52.7]
I think the nearest Maybe landmark someone might be able to identify it is the Salton Sea and it is this highly agricultural, very rural community in California and it's you know it's been it's it's been shaped by the Colorado River.
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That's where the agriculture gets all of its water and most recently which I don't know how much we'll touch into this. Actually, we probably will because of Prop 45. Most recently, it ha- there have been proposals for large data centers there, and it's a very disadvantaged community, majority Spanish-speaking populations.
[04:38.0]
So yeah, that's I guess that's Imperial in a nutshell. Oh, thank you so much. And I know Rachel has a question to sort of get more into the work that you're doing, but I just want to say. To put a pin in the data center discussion for later, I do want to come back to that because, as mentioned in our interviews, I do serve as a city council member in my spare time, whatever there is of it.
[04:58.8]
And one of the things that I just was a sponsor on with a couple other city councilors was a resolution to basically put a moratorium on any data center, permitting or construction for, I believe the time period is 18 months because we basically want to put a more Formal ordinance in place and so data centers have been very top of mind for us and I know for a lot of folks including it sounds like you as well so yes yeah I'm sure we will that's actually the we're gonna enjoy it yeah because there's definitely a lot of news that's breaking here too in San Diego on the topic for sure before we get into the nitty gritty nerdy parts of Prop 45, I don't maybe we could like back it up a little bit and you can talk a little bit about something called CEQA, which is for those that are listening, C E Q A, what that is, and why should people care about it here locally, and maybe even broader.
[05:55.7]
Yeah, absolutely. So, CEQA stands for the California Environmental Quality Act, and that is a state law in California, that basically mandates government agencies, your local city council.
[06:12.2]
Your regional board, it forces those government agencies to consider the environmental impacts of approving a project. And the idea behind it is that it it is to ensure that our decision makers and members of the public as well are aware of the environmental consequences of a project moving forward.
[06:35.9]
So. It's not a permit. it's it's nothing like that. It's simply a public disclosure document. That's all it is in a in the simplest of terms. All right. So basically, educational, I guess, is really kind of the scope of it or it's yeah, it's it's it's to provide that information from the get-go before the approval happens and then.
[07:04.7]
What if there are any significant impacts identified, finding ways to reduce or avoid those impacts. Okay. Yeah, I that's interesting because I've been doing a bit of work around housing lately, and so I've had the chance to work on some committees with local landlords and developers, and this has kind of come up a little bit, and obviously not this specific act, which is.
[07:33.7]
Specific to California, but this dynamic of, oh, it's so hard to be a developer and build housing and it's so expensive because we have to do all this stuff and then now you have these extra environmental regulations and like we don't you know we care about the environment we obviously don't want to like murder animals but it's really annoying and blah blah blah.
[07:52.4]
So I imagine there's a lot of that back and forth that was part of this and probably can persist as well. In terms of how all that stuff plays out, we we see those same dynamics in in place. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean that that's it.
[08:10.1]
So like I think Felicia you kind of you you kind of hit the nail on the head as far as like some of the issues around it. So my understanding, so Prop 45 was put on the ballot and it was supported by folks to sort of ease. Ease regulations, perhaps maybe you can talk a little bit about exactly what Prop 45 is.
[08:29.8]
I I will say I know Prop 40 is the one that everyone's been talking about here, so much over the past couple of weeks, and we did an episode on it before. But I will say, at least in my little echo chamber bubble, it's been really cool seeing Prop 45 be more and more on top of people's radar.
[08:49.6]
So tell us for for all people who are like scrolling by and be like, I don't know what Prop 45 is. Yeah, out of out of all the measures I think in California, I think Prop 45 is probably one of the trickier ones to wrap our heads around, especially for people who are not involved in these spaces like I am in the environmental field.
[09:12.6]
And also I I will say that Prop 45 is has amazing marketing. It is often referred to by the proponents of the measure as the Building in Affordable California Act. And so, Broad 45 acknowledges a very real experience that is not only just here in California, but I think across the state of like how do we deliver housing and infrastructure faster for our communities.
[09:43.0]
And that that bureaucracy, that red tape is is often seen as the impediment to getting these things faster. And what Prop 45 aims to do, and how it claims it'll deliver in a more affordable California, is by reducing the timeline that a government agency would have to do the environmental review for a public project.
[10:10.9]
And so, there's eight categories of quote unquote essential projects that would be streamlined if this measure were to pass. Some examples are like essential housing projects, essential transportation projects, and the idea is, you know, for these large infrastructure projects under CEQA, a government agency typically has to prepare what's called an environmental impact report, and these things can be very lengthy.
[10:42.0]
I mean, it depends on how complex the project is. where it's located, what type of resources it might need, what kind of approvals it might need, and you know sometimes again depending on the complexity of the project, these reports can take years, and that's not even counting potential litigation that might come with that.
[11:03.4]
And so, the the overall goal of Prop 45 is you know when you prepare that environmental document. It would force the government agency to complete it in one year, and that's only for an environmental impact report.
[11:19.2]
That's like the most comprehensive study we have to do here in California, but it it shortens it to one year, and so there's a lot of there's a lot of concerns around how you know CEQA being the state law that is meant to inform our decision makers and inform us the public.
[11:37.9]
About the impacts of a project, there's real concern about how useful is the information that we get to see. If suddenly you have this enormous industrial facility that suddenly had to complete all its environmental review in one year, at that point, you know, as someone who is in this world, there's just opportunities for corners to be cut, and then the re- how reliable that information is is.
[12:05.1]
You know, it's it's up to a question. Okay, so so I'm just gonna like kind of restate in plain language because I know Rachel especially and I'm sure you are as well. I'm like deep in the props for California and I am and more of a casual observer from the outside.
[12:21.7]
So so basically Prop 45 is amending CEQA to put this one year deadline in place. Okay, and I guess two questions from that from to clarify a little bit further. So I guess first my question is. Were there no deadlines before?
[12:37.0]
And secondly, to me, as a non-environmental planner, one year sounds like a lot of time. But from what you just said, I'm I'm thinking maybe it's not a lot of time for this kind of stuff. Yeah. So, so you're you're exactly right. This proposition would amend CEQA. It doesn't it doesn't eliminate it.
[12:53.8]
It's not an exemption for projects. It just has to do with that timeline. Government governments have to complete their review, and. I think for for most people like one year sounds like enough time, but if you think about you know the so the other thing that Prop 45 does is that like it's not just the project itself, but it's also all of the things that it would need to make that project happen.
[13:22.9]
So if it needs roads, if it needs utilities, and if it needs more pipes. all of that would be considered as a whole of the project that would need to be considered in one year and you know sometimes and and again it doesn't matter the size of the project or where it's located if you have a project that's like you know surrounded by development in the middle of the city you there are not going to be many environmental impacts to that but let's say you there's a proposal for in the unincorporated region for here for us Further east, where there's pristine habitat, there's wetlands, and it's maybe more at risk of wildfire or flooding, like that's a more complex complex assessment that would need to happen.
[14:13.7]
And so, eh Prop 45 just sets this arbitrary deadline of regardless of the complexity, you have to do it in one year. That's Super interesting, and I want to do a little bit of inside baseball for sorry for the listeners who are outside of San Diego, but you just made me think about the Midway Project, which has just been so controversial here.
[14:37.0]
Do you, Edgar, do you know much about it? Is that it's sort of a something I didn't ask you to speak about, but do you know much about that? I mean, other than that, it's intended to provide like more housing and a new sports arena. I don't know, maybe.
[14:53.1]
What much more about the project? I know a little bit about like the, there's a little bit of a tie-in here with like Prop 45. Right. So, one of one of the things that happen with the this project and what often happens, which is a something that this measure is trying to get that get at, is that every time that a project is sued, the scope Of the analysis of the things that a government agency has to consider, expands.
[15:23.2]
And so when CEQA came into existence, which funny enough, it was it was under Ronald Reagan when CEQA came into existence, a big environmentalist. Yeah, exactly. When the Republicans were good. I should have known. Yeah, of course.
[15:40.6]
So when CEQA came into existence, you know. You had environmental reports that were literally like check boxes. People would just be like, "No, no impact." A couple pages and then you're out. But every time a a project's environmental document is sued, the courts then expand what we're looking at.
[16:00.6]
And so, for example, in Berkeley, a couple years ago, there was I think it was UC Berkeley that was trying to build more student housing. And there were people who were against that proposal, and so they sued the environmental document and said, "Berkeley did not consider the impacts of noise of having more people live in this area." The court agreed and then said, "Berkeley now needs to consider the impacts of social noise.
[16:33.1]
The fact of having more people in your community leads to more noise, and that's something you need to now think about." That is something that has never had to be considered, and it's that and it's actually pretty problematic. I mean, then if you start thinking about the type of people who are coming into your community, and then you have to assess how much noise they're going to make.
[16:54.2]
I mean, that's when the state had to like jump in and be like, no, that's not something that we need to consider consider under CEQA. But that's exactly what we see play out every time. It's what happened with Midway, where it's gonna sound like a joke. But when Midway's sequel document got sued, one of the things the the judge said the city didn't consider was we didn't analyze the impacts of tall buildings on the lunar cycle of birds.
[17:25.2]
Which, what does that mean? It doesn't sound silly at all to me. Let me tell you. Yeah. Someone. Let me tell you. That's funny. Felicia, why doesn't that sound weird to you? Well, I mean, so as a city councilor, I'm a I'm a precinct councilor, and I know it's different all over.
[17:42.5]
We have a whole other episode about that if anyone's interested. But here, what it means is I am responsible for a certain area, and there's there was a there is a currently a construction project happening where basically developers bought an old abandoned church and they're converting it into condos, which is you know housing great.
[18:00.1]
But there are swallows that nest in the steeple of the church, and they're turning the church. They're basically turning the church into living space, which is cool and great. But that was a huge point of discussion during planning board meetings because we wanted to make sure that the swallows were not disrupted and that they would be allowed to still come nest in the top part of the structure.
[18:26.7]
So it's a whole thing, and you know, and I think that kind of stuff is challenging because you know, and and I see this not. Just with that specific example, but in general, a lot of times, and I'm sure this is true for what you're speaking to as well, Edgar, it's the difference between what is asked for, what is approved, and then what is actually enacted or or put forward in reality, and it doesn't always align on all those different fronts.
[18:50.1]
I had a really quick follow-up question for you, Edgar, because with the one-year timeline that's sort of up for discussion, would that also be, I guess how does that Work when you have an emergency project, and I'm thinking because we have an emergency project right now in my area, and I actually just before this call started made a note to myself.
[19:14.6]
I had to follow up with our conservation agent because we had to partially drain a pond in order to get access for this emergency situation that we're dealing with, and people are asking, "Well, what about the beavers and the wildlife and this is impacting and it's going to be years." Did we think about that?
[19:30.0]
And I'll be really honest, I don't know if we did, or I don't think we did because it was a true emergency. So I'm curious how if that's played into or or how that plays into the the one year limit, if you know it all. Yeah, I mean, so under under CEQA, emergency projects are exempt.
[19:47.6]
And so the idea being that you're in an emergency situation where you you need to where you need to protect life and property and public health. CEQA allows a government agency to make a declaration of an emergency and then just go forward and then once that emergency has been stabilized then going back and doing the the assessment.
[20:13.0]
Got it. Thank you. All right. Enough enough from me. No, no. That was back to you, Rachel. That was a that was a wonderful point that you made that I think is important for people to know if they're going to be voting on this, right? Like, but I do I want to go back a little bit to That the kind of the midway and the noise pollution and you know and I I think I heard some other you know people sort of using the environmental regulations sort of I feel like everyone's using stuff to try to like manipulate for whatever that they want whether they want the housing or they don't want the housing or the the YIMBY versus NIMBY and all that stuff and it's frustrating so I'm I'm assuming that the way SEQ was written was was to take all of these things into consideration so by Voting no on this, it's really about sort of keeping things status quo.
[21:00.0]
But I wonder, do you, I think we, I think you know we have some clear senses. So certainly, I will say, there's no, it's no secret. Anybody who knows me and Felicia and sort of the way we roll, we're on the progressive side of things. And so all of the progressive folks are definitely a no on any sort of changes around this.
[21:18.7]
And is there any sort of acknowledgement of the fact that like Do things need to happen in a way that is more efficient, perhaps, than the way they are currently? And how does that get addressed? Absolutely. I mean, here's the thing with Prop 45 is that, again, it it acknowledges a very real situation that we are all in.
[21:41.7]
Like, how do we deliver essential infrastructure and housing faster? And you know. One of the areas that I'm very much concerned about is how do we protect our communities from the worst effects of climate change, and some of that is going to require new infrastructure.
[21:59.9]
And so, the thing, though, with Prop 45 is that the scope of what it considers as essential projects is so broad that some of the things it would streamline are. New freeways and freeway expansions, and sprawling neighborhood development out in the unincorporated area that are more prone to wildfire and flooding, and the likely scenario of having more data centers through their essential broadband infrastructure, designation.
[22:35.2]
And so, I, you know, I I want to see infrastructure delivered faster. I just don't think that Prop 45 is really the answer that we're looking for. Okay, that's helpful to hear because I think you know, I mean, we're dealing with it here in Massachusetts.
[22:51.4]
I think a lot of these questions are obviously there's you know the people behind them are crafting them in different ways and and a lot of times it's not a super clear-cut yes no or like evil good kind of situation to bring our superhero stuff back in but it is nuanced and it's complicated and it doesn't always Like a yes or a no vote doesn't necessarily mean that you agree with everything or that you disagree with everything.
[23:15.3]
So I think that's that's super helpful to hear. Because you brought up the data centers again, I would love to maybe dig into that a little bit more if you're up for it. So I think you know it's not just a California or Massachusetts thing. I think it's something that's become or or is getting pushed on a lot of communities nationwide.
[23:35.3]
But I know from Rachel that there is a big push for data centers in San Diego, and so I'm just curious if you can speak a little bit more, especially given the environmental aspect of your role and what we've been talking about with Prop 45 and CEQA, how like what are the kinds of discussions that are coming up around this push with regard to the environmental impact of data centers?
[23:59.3]
Yeah, absolutely. You know, yeah, I we You know, today is October 23rd, but it was, I think it was this week that we heard of Rachel that there was going to be a proposal for the largest data center in the state.
[24:14.3]
The record, the record was in the Imperial Valley, which is now getting going to be beat by this proposal in downtown San Diego. Downtown San Diego. Yes. Yeah. Wow. People are losing their minds. I don't think it's going to happen. I'm losing my mind.
[24:30.1]
Where are they going to put it? And the issue with. Like what we're seeing here in San Diego is that it's on federal land, and so whatever city regulation comes forward would not stop it. And so we have a different struggle on our end right now with this proposal, which was initially supposed to be a mixed-use housing development.
[24:54.9]
Are you serious? Oh my god. There have been talks about, I think, because there have been some pushback, you know. I think I've heard and I don't know if this is a joke, but they were like, "Yeah, you know, housing is still going to be a part of it, but we'll also have part of it. Sorry, I I need to stop. I'm so sorry.
[25:11.5]
So you know this idea now this mixed-use development is going to be housing and a data center. Like that's not what we're looking for. So yeah, we're it's not great and you know it's it's a I think it's a struggle that we're all seeing like just nationwide about the these." this type of infrastructure, you know around kind of linking it back to you know Prop 45, one of my concerns and you know I've I've been helping my community in the Imperial Valley kind of understand the relationship between environmental regulation and these type of large infrastructure projects, is that one of the things that Prop 45 would do is that it would essentially grandfather in a project.
[26:00.1]
In a way that, like, if let's say, for example, you have you have a data center, and let's say we know that data centers are running 24/7. They're always there's there's so I don't know if any of you have heard what a data center sounds like, but it's horrifying. It's that's why I'm like I I'm still losing my mind around the idea of housing combined with a data center.
[26:20.0]
Yeah, my God. So, so one of the things that we know is that data centers are very loud because they're always running. And so if Prop 45 passes, what one of the things that it does is that it sets this new standard of review where eh the the only laws that apply for a project are the laws that exist at the time a project is being proposed.
[26:42.6]
Which, like, if you think about it at first, it's like, okay, that sounds reasonable. But then if we think about how that ends up playing out, let's think of again going back to the noise from the data center. Let's say your government wants to then, you know, introduce regulation that forces this type of industry to limit how much noise or or forces them to implement something that reduces that noise.
[27:09.3]
You could not, if that project was approved before that law, you could not then sue and force that developer to implement this new regulation. That's what Prop 45 would do. Yeah, and I actually have late breaking news, so I was just looking.
[27:26.8]
I wanted to find an article for Felicia to to send it to her, but I did find. Wait for it. Mayor Gloria signs moratorium on data centers in city will head to council as of one hour ago. Late breaking breaking news.
[27:48.8]
I mean, I know this is late breaking. We're reacting in real time, but that could just be again, as you said though, just for city, not federal. And that's what's so like diabolical about this in my mind. It's because I mean, we all know what's happening at the federal level right now. So like they're obviously no, I don't know what you're talking about.
[28:05.2]
That's not what this podcast is about. No kidding. Isn't it though? I know. Local, what is it? Global, local, whatever. It's like locally, act global, whatever. That's so wild. I mean, I mean, I'm clearly convinced that I, if I were living there, I'd be a no on Prop 45 just from that alone.
[28:25.4]
That's so wild. Wow. Okay. Yeah, we had as I mentioned, we just passed our own resolution that's not outright banning data center construction, but it's putting a halt on it until we can basically. The idea is that we'll get our act together.
[28:42.3]
So that we can put more stringent laws in place, but it was so interesting because the day that we were set that we met to have our city council meeting and vote on this particular resolution, one of my fellow councillors who was a co-sponsor with me on it received a call from a developer who had just heard about it and was like, "Oh, I had no idea you all were doing this and you know do you think it's going to pass blah blah blah." And basically, the long and short of it was he was like, "Yeah, I'm actually currently looking at putting a data center in East Hampton." And I know you don't know where I live, Agrippa.
[29:17.9]
East Hampton is not San Diego. East Hampton is 16,000 people. We are a tiny, tiny, basically like farmland, rural kind of area. I also lost my mind. I was like, "What?" And this is like a local developer, like not some out of town horrible evil person.
[29:36.1]
This guy who lives in the community who's like you know and I was just like are you freaking kidding me and you know and yeah so I just it it's like if anyone's listening to this and you're like well this is San Diego or this is whatever it's never going to happen in my neighborhood absolutely not it can happen anywhere and at any point and from people that you think would care about this stuff so and what's so fun is and it's been such a lightning rod of a of a topic for so many reasons we won't get into in this This episode, but I think tying it back to the CEQA and the the laws that are that are there were the propositions that are being offered and who is behind the propositions as well, I think is very telling to who's funding them and how how they're sort of being marketed.
[30:23.1]
And so, Edgar, I just appreciate you shedding light on on this particular proposition. I I would just love to know from you. I mean, and and I the the purpose of this really is understanding that you know everybody locally has their own flavor of of government whatever is happening, but there are some lessons that I think that everyone can take and one of them is sort of how to get involved.
[30:45.8]
One thing we talk about this is really meant for people who are like you know not necessarily that locally engaged even but like wants to be and wants to sort of plug in in some ways. What would you suggest? For folks to, how do you how would you suggest that they sort of get engaged to make sure that whatever laws are being passed or proposed are in alignment with their own values?
[31:11.4]
Yeah, you know, I've we just got have to talk to one another, and you know we have to every everyone has it has an opinion of how you know their community is developing or what is being proposed.
[31:28.0]
I think for for for many people though it's like like where do I where do I start like does it have to be this like big thing big thing where I go to a rally or like or I organize a march and and really it's as simple as just like talking about like hey this is what I this is what I'm seeing and these are these are my concerns here here in San Diego one of the things that I have been very involved with was you know use using my own Expertise in my experience in CEQA to talk to people and be like, "Hey, there's this measure and it's called the Building an Affordable California Act, and it sounds great, but let me tell you that the devil is in the details." And I mean, luckily there has been, I think, as the election has it is near, it it has kind of woken people up a little bit more to like what this measure does.
[32:26.3]
But real it's it's it's just as basic as just like talking with your neighbors, your friends, your family about policy, and like and how that policy aligns with your values and how you think we should be moving. Yeah, I love that, and I think one of the things that I just so appreciate moving from Massachusetts to California was, and I don't know if it's changed.
[32:51.5]
Felicia, it might have changed since I've moved out here, but being able to have my ballot at home and then talk with you know friends and family and sort of go over, especially because you know we we just did it Wednesday we just did our ballot the the four of us and you know it was like four pages of ballot like it was a lot you know and for people to be expected to be expertise experts sorry in all of these different propositions is just it's so unrealistic and I will just say too Edgar I mean I'd put a push out there for like also go to your local like planning meetings and city council meetings to yeah to to go to your libraries I mean there's so much information out there and I I do appreciate the I think the one-on-one conversations are so powerful and obviously they're just one approach and they shouldn't be the only, but I do think that it's I I've seen you can really change minds or at least educate people that way.
[33:55.0]
Well, it's true and actually and Edgar Edgar doesn't know this, but on one of the ballot one of the local ballot initiatives here, Measure B, even though all of the progressive organizations have were is the half cent sales tax increase and everyone On sort of like my little bubble, it was a yes, but I was actually a no for the longest time because it's a regressive tax and I've just in my short time here have seen just the inability for the city to handle the dollars that it does have so I was very hesitant to give it more even though it was for causes that I believed in but at Tuesday's planning committee meeting we did have someone come in From one of the advocacy groups that are gonna that are involved in that particular measure, and she spoke about it.
[34:48.7]
And I didn't really have we didn't have time during the meeting for me to ask any questions, which was fine. But I asked Edgar for their info, and I actually had a conversation with one of her colleagues, literally probably an hour before I was about to vote. I wanted to try to talk with her beforehand to sort of because I really wanted to hear from like.
[35:09.1]
I had some very specific questions that I had not been able to get really good answers to, and so I was so appreciative to the point of like having that happen, like having having that 101 conversation. So I changed my vote actually to a yes. Still fingers crossed, hoping that you know San Diego gets its act together, but like you know like hoping good intention and like that we can actually solve some of these problems that we're having.
[35:34.8]
So they really truly do make a difference. So thanks Edgar for having that. Yeah, of course, and I think too, like as long as also people can approach these type of conversations with like, not from like a a form of like judgment or trying to one up someone, like from genuine curiosity and wanting to understand, like I think that's just a better way to do politics because there are things that you know that I don't, and there and there are things that I got confused.
[36:06.2]
The things that you know that I don't, I might have to say. And vice versa. Right and vice versa. We got there. And I think if we can approach these type of conversations from that angle, it's just it's just a lot better. It's it's nicer. Everyone just has opinions on folks and it's okay to disagree.
[36:24.2]
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's an important point too because like again it's complicated and everyone is coming from a different perspective and and has different impacts and so Whew, I'm curious. Oh, go ahead. Yeah, I was only just going to add like one little extra point to that because I like so agree with that, and I think that it's so hard for people to not just think about like, oh, I know what I want to say, and my goal is to convince the other person.
[36:51.8]
When I was having that conversation with the woman that on Wednesday, my goal for that, and I wonder if. This is just something I'm spitballing here. That the goal for me anyway was I want you to change my mind. Like I genuinely wanted her to change my mind because I was like I want to be in alignment with these other people and I I feel like my soul is not letting me.
[37:12.8]
So help me understand. And I just wonder if that's like a better approach is to be like truly change my mind. Not I'm going to try to change yours. Unless it's like crazy like Garbage, racist, all that stuff. Like that would be that.
[37:30.2]
Sorry, Felicia, please go. I'm just like, well, I think I mean, I I really appreciate your approach, Rachel. I don't know if everyone goes into these kinds of conversations with the same lens as you do, but I I do appreciate it. I was my my question that I was wanting to put my curiosity out there was really kind of for both of you is which way do you think the wind's blowing for a 45 at the moment.
[37:55.7]
Like, do you think it's gonna pass? Do you think it's not gonna pass? What have you been hearing? I know it's still it's it's hard to say. But you know, I have I constantly. So I will say that within my circle, it seems like it will not pass. But I constantly remind myself that I might be in a bubble.
[38:16.9]
Yeah, that's real. I mean, it's It's it's hard to tell. I mean, again, it acknowledges a very real thing that that's not just like California specific. And so I don't know. I I really don't know.
[38:32.2]
I feel like it's going to be a toss-up. Yeah, I agree. I've been thinking a lot about some of these more sort of controversial ones, and I think it just requires people to pay so much attention and have conversation and know people like Edgar and others.
[38:47.9]
Who are sort of in the weeds. I think a lot about Prop 42 and I'm convinced that Prop 42, which is like, don't come after my personal wealth, which is truly just a way to not have the billionaire tax happen. But if you're just to read it on its face, you'd be like, yeah, I don't want the government in my 401k, which is like not cool.
[39:08.1]
But like people are going to just assume that's what it is unless they're having deeper conversations. So it's the marketing is is real. So yeah, I don't know either. We'll see. I'm gonna do so. Fullish, so Edgar Fullish and I have a good friend who she talks to angels and I like to talk about her a lot when when in times like this full woo.
[39:33.4]
I've been to San Diego. I've only been here for six years. I've gone full woo and and she and she's just like you know and a lot of people say this too. It's just like The everything is gonna happen just the way it's supposed to happen and like would be better if there was no harm and here we are so trying to take deep breaths for this election and we our goal is to get this out very soon so that's why I'm glad we had this conversation now before the before the the big day coming up well if people want to learn more if they want to get more involved if You know, I know we're all busy.
[40:12.5]
We've all got stuff to do, but you know, at the same time, this is important work and not just this particular specific stuff, but in general, like the work you're doing. And I think obviously the reason why we we do this podcast is to educate people to how stuff gets done because it is important.
[40:29.1]
How can people learn more and how can they get involved? Do you think? Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think as as Rachel mentioned here here in San Diego, getting involved with. Your local planning group is a great opportunity to learn about local issues and how to get involved.
[40:46.0]
I will also say that I have been doing a lot of work with the Democratic Socialists of America, the San Diego chapter. We've been yeah we've been canvassing letting people know about Prop 40, 41 and 42. And also you know at least right now here in San Diego someone a friend of mine Organize a prop party just like people getting together in a bar and talking props and just like mingling together and and learning together.
[41:14.5]
I think really putting yourself out there and taking a risk on these type of opportunities can be really really meaningful. So I would encourage anyone to do any of those things. And if you if someone feels a little intimidated, just talk to your neighbors, talk to your friends.
[41:31.9]
Text text your friends. Do what do you think about this measure? I love that. Or ask the robots. Just kidding. Oh, Rachel, the AI. Rachel.
[41:45.9]
Strike that from the record. Reject that. Point of order. Point of order. Okay, so Edgar, where can people find you if they want to learn more about all the good stuff you're up to? Yeah, absolutely.
[42:01.5]
So I have you can find me on Instagram as Edgar from the city. I do some explainer videos in there. Most recent one, given the Super El Niño that we're going to have here in our region, I did an explainer around the city's stormwater infrastructure.
[42:18.1]
So if anyone's interested to see how that works, yeah, just you can find me there, Edgar from the city. And you do it bilingual. I love that. Yep, Spanish is my first language, so I just want to make sure that the information can get out there to as many people as possible.
[42:35.6]
I love that so much. Well, thank you so much, Edgar. And my cat just joined us, so I guess you also wanted to say hello. Hi. Hello and goodbye. Hello and goodbye. Appreciate it. Thanks, Edgar. Yeah, thank you for your time. Thanks for having me.